Interview With a Bread Expert: Ciril Hitz of Breadhitz.com

Master Boulanger, Teacher and Entrepreneur

Interview with Ciril Hitz

www.breadhitz.com

By Kathryn Gordon of Foodstartuphelp.com

Kathryn: Why did you decide to start your business?

Ciril:  In the past I had spent a lot of my summer vacation time traveling throughout the USA to teach workshops. At the time, I was primarily focused on decorative breads and there seemed to be a great interest in learning about these techniques. The problem was that I couldn't be everywhere at once, so I filmed and produced a series of educational bread baking DVDs to share my knowledge with those who couldn't attend the workshops personally. Breadhitz was born and has evolved ever since. Together with my wife, Kylee, we developed a website for our products including my DVDs, books, and a small selection of baking tools.  

As time went on, I was finding that the energy involved with prepping, packing, traveling, and teaching was starting to take its toll. I still wanted to teach workshops, but I also wanted to spend more time at home with my family. We decided that creating a small teaching and baking facility on our rural property would be a good solution. That way, I could still travel to teach workshops if I wanted to, but I also had the flexibility of hosting some of my own. In addition, I also could hone my production skills by running an occasional bread sale. 

Kathryn: What did you do before?

Ciril:  I am still employed full-time as an associate instructor of Johnson & Wales University at the Providence Campus.

Kathryn:  What's the name, location and website of the business?

Ciril: The business is called Breadhitz and we are located in Rehoboth, MA. The website is www.breadhitz.com

Kathryn: How old is your business? What's the focus of your business, and who is your customer base? 

Ciril: Our first DVDs were produced in 2005. We have been hosting workshops and bread sales since 2011.  Our focus is on bread baking education and services, with our customer base ranging from the baking enthusiast to the industry professional.

Kathryn: Do you sell retail/wholesale/internet?  

Ciril: Our main retail sales are generated through our website; we also sell retail at our workshops and wholesale to select accounts. 

Kathryn: How did you finance your business: Investors, savings, loans? 

Ciril:  My wife and I made a pact not to take on any loans in order to finance this business. We financed our business through personal savings and limited corporate sponsors. 

Kathryn: Did you have a business plan, and if so, do you find it valuable, or are you just winging it?  

Ciril: We did not do a business plan and have been winging it ever since. That being said, I am certain that a business plan would be very helpful to us in providing a structure for identifying goals and implementing strategies to achieve them. 

Kathryn: What product(s) are you most proud of? 

Ciril: That's a difficult question! I view all of my products as an extension of me, but I suppose I am most proud of anything that has a sourdough flavor profile since they are such a challenge to produce on a consistent level. The sourdough breads have been nurtured along for 10 years. I am constantly refreshing the culture so that I can have a reliable starter and it takes a lot of care and wood fired oven maintenance to produce a consistent result. 

Kathryn: How has your menu evolved since you started? 

Ciril: My menu is constantly evolving. I try to pair my breads with the seasons in order to purvey the ingredients  and integrate ingredients through local vendors as much as possible. It's always fun to try something new!

Kathryn: How are your space, equipment and staffing going?

Ciril:  The space we have developed for our workshops is rather unique in that the mixing and shaping room is some distance away from our outdoor wood-fired oven. If our budget for the workshop facility had been unlimited, we would have constructed a new building closer to the source of baking. Our space is small, but so far we've made the best of the situation that we have. As our workshops grow, we do anticipate expanding our existing space. 

Kathryn: Do you feel you have outgrown your space? 

Ciril: Our space is snug and working during production bakes for the sales is definitely challenging. If we were doing this as a full-time venture, then we would definitely need to relocate or rethink our facilities. 

Kathryn: Do you have a lot of staff turnover in your area?  

Ciril: Aside from the occasional seasonal intern, this is a family-run business. So far our marriage has survived and I don't anticipate a turnover in staff in the future!

Kathryn: What is the biggest surprise you've encountered in this new business? 

Ciril: When we began selling breads to the local community through occasional bread sales, it was a single person operation making about 75 to 100 products. Now we plan on a two day production process and we make well over 1000+ items. We do not pay for advertising (word of mouth seems to do the job just fine) and we regularly sell out in less than 3 hours. Who would have thought?!

Kathryn: Is it overall more or less challenging than you expected?

Ciril: I thrive off of challenge! When I do bread sales, it's like my own competition. I try to see how much I can maximize my production in my given space and still continue to deliver a high-end product without sacrificing quality or integrity.

Kathryn: What is the biggest "lesson learned" you would share with other entrepreneurs? 

Ciril: Always treat people the way that you want to be treated. Of course, it's always good to be able to recognize when it is time to step back for the well-being of you and your family.  

Kathryn: What's next for you in terms of your business direction?

Ciril: Continue to diversify my teaching schedule for Breadhitz and keep up with industry subject matter and trends. 

 Kathryn: Thank you Ciril. Keep making those wonderful breads!

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Time to Expand?

Time to Expand?

An interview with Master Boulanger Philippe Soulard by Kathryn Gordon

Name of Business:  La Maison du Pain

        At location # 1 of 3, Angers France
        http://lamaisondupain-angers.fr/

Kathryn:  So Philippe, I’ve been coming here to visit with you at la Maison du Pain for the annual ICE culinary course to learn about artisan, levain leavened breads since 2006. Now I hear that you have opened 2 additional locations of la Maison du Pain?

Original location of La Maison du Pain in Angers

Philippe:   Our city, Angers, underwent an extensive 3-year construction project for a tramway.  After the first few years, the construction really impacted our business.   Nobody could really drive through the city so demand for our product was limited to neighborhood walk-in customers, so we were forced to expand to other locations. 

Kathryn:  Do you offer the same products in the new locations as you do in the original location, or does it vary by neighborhood? 

Philippe:   We sell the exact same products at each location.  We make 65 different bread products from 29 different doughs!   The second location is a second production bakery that I took over – and the third location is retail only.  Honestly, the third location is in a better neighborhood (people with more income) than the second location, and the demand is steadier there across the product lines.

Kathryn:   If you took over a production bakery, how did that go, if you changed a pre-existing product line over to your products and renamed everything to the name of your business, “la Maison du Pain?”

Philippe:   The transition was a bit rough at first.  For example, there was a type of bread people wanted, but I didn’t want to make it so I didn’t bake it.  We lost some people at first but since then, demand has stabilized.  We’ve been open in that second bakery location about 6 months.  The third location has only been open a few months. 

Wife Catherine, who manages the retail operation

Kathryn:  I know you use a lot of organic (biologique) flours – but you’ve also said your customer base is not affluent enough to solely demand organic products because of the higher retail price.  What are your food costs? 

Note:  the stone-ground, water-driven mill that produced Philippe’s organic flours is Moulin de Sarre, www.moulin-de-sarre.fr and is very interesting to visit if you are in the Loire Valley. 

Philippe:  My food costs are about 25%.  I don’t look at it on a product-by-product basis, but overall that’s what it is.

Kathryn:   You and your wife Catherine live here with your family above the original location, and she manages the retail shop.  And that has allowed you to tell if your staff are starting work on time at 4 am!  How on earth are you managing the other full scale production bakery you are now operating?  

Couche, new, 10 years old and 50 years old

Philippe:   I only need 4 hours of sleep a night.  It was difficult at first, because I needed to find very good people, including a very friendly retail staff.  In France, firing employees is difficult so you have to be very careful making sure you are selecting the right employee…   For the production staff, I moved over one of my sous chefs as the manager of the second production bakery.  I kept the bakers who had been employed by the bakery I acquired and brought each of them to work here with my staff to learn my product.  Gradually everyone was trained.    

Philippe in the store with some of his breads

Kathryn:  Your specialty is levain leavened breads – you seem to try to only use commercial yeast minimally, like for the rich yeast products (brioche, croissants) and for one of your 10 different baguettes.

(Philippe produces one cheaper, machine driven, yeast risen baguette for the older generation who lived through WW II and don’t care for the more chic/nutritious/high end breads with whole wheat, rye and grains.  That customer base likes the commercial white flour).

Kathryn:  Are the breads truly the same in each location, because I’ve tried making “your” breads in NYC and they work.  They’re great breads, but they’re not exactly what you make here in Angers.  And your 3 locations of la Maison du Pain are all within the Angers city-limits (or about 5 miles apart).

Philippe:  It’s true.  I try to have the same product line at all 3 locations but at the second bakery location, even using the same brands of flour, and having trained the staff myself, – some of the breads come out a little different.

A crusty wheat levain loaf

Kathryn:  And within the same city, the available city, water in the bread doughs is presumably the same!  For instance, if I try to make your formula using water from NYC (which has chlorine, fluoride and who knows what else), I should expect a different result!   Of course – you have a bit more of the “wild yeasts” available here in a location that has been a boulangerie for decades, than some people have at their US bakeries (or their homes).  

Kathryn:  How much commercial yeast to you use in your dough formulas?

Philippe:  There’s nothing wrong with using a bit of commercial yeast and I use the fresh variety in some of my doughs. 

If you strictly use levains for all your doughs, the levains and the doughs take up more space in your bakery.  You need space for longer fermentation of the levain and space for longer fermentation of the pates (doughs).  And space equals money.

Kathryn:  How did you finance your expansion?

Philippe:  In France, you can get a bank loan for 7 years if you file an application that includes your resume.

After 7 years of operating a business, I would have to pay a higher tax to the government than for the first 7 years.

It is more economically viable in France to re-mortgage and expand a business, or at least try to expand until you retire and sell your business (where you would then pay less taxes because you are in retirement).

I was able to get the bank loan for the expansion because we were successful with the first location.

Boulanger Philippe showing how his ovens work in a class; we visit Philippe for an artisan bread lesson in the annual ICE Cuisine Course in France (www.moulinbregeoncuisinecourses.com)

Kathryn:  And you have quite a resume!  You even come from a family of bakers.

Philippe:   My father was a baker, and my brothers are bakers.   I went to school for several years for bread, and then I travelled around the country to boulangeries working for a flour company.  I had to help work at different bakeries every day.  I really learned a lot about bread doughs, in different environments, and what I wanted to produce for my own line of levain leavened bread.

Kathryn:  With all this expansion, you need a website!   You have all this cute stuff in the retail shop:  aprons with your logo, bread baskets with your logo, reuseable shopping bags… 

Philippe:  Yes, we know!  As we’ve been discussing for years.   It will be live this summer. 

Kathryn:  OK Philippe, thank you!  And we’ll follow-up again with you in a few months when the website is live.

Couche, used for proofing shaped breads, 50 years old 

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